First they called support who messaged me to give a refund, buyer is claiming they received an empty package (no mention of damage to the package or receiving it opened). I sent the buyer instructions to file A-Z Claim, I use Buy Shipping. No reply to my message until -
Then they choose ‘problem not solved-want a refund’ so I send A-Z instructions again and explain “The package was not empty when I shipped it. It was sent UPS Ground Saver, I took it to UPS and handed it individually to the counter person who scanned it in front of me. We both would have noticed if it were empty because it is 2” thick filled, not flat and yours was not the only one I took to UPS, there were identical others that day also.
My process is to always fill and seal the padded envelope before affixing the label because I need to find the flattest area on the package for the label so it will properly scan.
It was handed off from UPS to USPS to be delivered to you. If the package was empty when you received it, you need to file an A-Z Claim with Amazon."
Now they’ve opened a return request with this comment: The bag was completely empty when it was delivered to my property I contacted the owner and he stated to return the item and file a claim with Amazon.
I never said to return it. So now he’s going to return an empty package, cost me the return label and get auto-refunded instead of filing the A-Z Claim that would be Amazon funded.
I honestly suspected a scam refund attempt on this one, due to lack of any mention about an opened package and that there is no possible way I sent him an empty package. It could still be a scam refund, he might have removed the item and now will send me back an empty padded envelope.
I guess I will file a Safe-T Claim then instead. I think this could be a buyer that needs to be on Amazon’s radar.
( I included the packaging process and UPS details mainly for Amazon to see when deciding the A-Z Claim.)
Could be a scam. Could be a customer who can’t follow directions. Could be a moron. Could be Amazon reps giving them BS misinformation. It’s hard to tell until you see what they actually do.
The only thing I can say is that telling the buyer that you know they are full of it is never helpful. If they are lying it will just antagonize them. If they aren’t it just seems aggressively defensive.
If something does come back, SAFE-T the heck out of it.
I wonder sometimes about Amazon doing what they can to avoid filling their promise.
I have no problem in believing that level of greed, deviousness and seller-directed malice. The wondering part is – do they know enough to realize what they are doing?
My suggestion to you is to, politely, tell the customer that they can’t use a return request and that it has to specifically be a claim. Tell them the differences and then tell them to reach out to Customer service through chat or phone and tell them to say to the agent “please walk me through the steps of filing an A-Z claim”. It sounds like they have never filed one before and just need the steps handed to them by someone in real time.
Arriving empty because someone opened it and took out the item, or equipment caught and tore it open, is certainly a possibility; but package compromise would be obvious and noted in the contact. This buyer seems to be avoiding direct contact with me.
I was thinking after I posted last night that it would be great if some of the carrier scans included the package weight on the tracking, especially the last one before it is sent out for delivery; and a weight/scan would be a good idea in the transition from UPS to USPS.
Actually you can still get that if you go to your local branch with the tracking number and ask the postmaster or their assistant to do so - I had to do that for a different situation where the buyer returned some video games and never sealed the return mailer.
Yeah, the way they are avoiding doing what you told them to do pings as if maybe they don’t want Amazon tracking their AtoZ claims, or that perhaps they no lonfer have this option, due to abuse. Since you didn’t immediately cave and refund, they are using a return request to workaround the AtoZ.
Continue to tread carefully and document. Even if the Buyer is simply unfamiliar with the Amazon options available to them in a weird circumstance, they can still cause you more trouble.
That is what I suspect. Unfortunately I see more scam refund attempts on this item than any other. It is a beach accessory so not likely to be an un-savvy confused buyer.
Amazon customer service should be trained to tell buyers to file A-Z claims, not send me an email to hand out refunds.
Years ago on the OSFE a wise seller posted that mistakes made by his employees were his fault for not training them correctly. That concept is accurate and has stuck with me, but I can’t remember who it was. Might be a seller that is now on this forum.
It is Amazon’s fault that buyers don’t see their messages, that legitimate problem resolution is convoluted, and buyers get away with scamming us.
I received notice that you filed a return request, that is the wrong option since you have nothing to return. The correct procedure is to file an A to Z Claim for ‘Problem - item not received’.
I buy postage from Amazon, they cover missing item orders. The carrier accounts are Amazon’s so they need to file the missing item claim with the carriers. Filing the A to Z Claim lets Amazon know that your item disappeared in the hands of one of the carriers so they can follow up.
Please do not return the empty envelope to me. Reach out to Customer service through chat or phone and ask the agent to “please walk me through the steps of filing an A-Z claim”.
If you file the claim as instructed, Amazon will refund based on the claim.
We understand that you would like a refund for an order you did not receive.
Please be aware that returning an empty package will not result in a refund. A return will only result in a refund if the original item is returned. Since you did not receive your item, you cannot return it.
To obtain a refund for this order, please open an AtoZ claim through your Amazon account. Once Amazon confirms that your order was not received as expected, they will refund your purchase. If you chose a different course of action, we cannot guarantee that you will be able to get a refund for this order.
Here are the A to Z instructions that we provide when asked (rather than send to Amazon Customer Service)
Hi [Customer Name],
Go to your orders and find the order in question.
You will see a yellow button labeled as “Problem with Order” … select this button.
On the page that opens under the section “What went wrong?”, select the link that says “Package didn’t arrive”.
The next page will show that the item delivery details. On the bottom of that, there is a button that says “Need more help” … select that button.
On the page that opens, you will see a “Select Reason” drop down menu … select “Refund wanted - package didn’t arrive”.
In the comment box, explain that you receive the package but the contents had been removed and would like a refund.
Finally, click the button labeled “Submit”.
Amazon will then process the A to Z claim.
We strongly suggest making sure that you contact your local post office about this missing package. USPS takes lost and/or stolen packages seriously as mail theft and mail fraud are Federal crime. In addition, we suggest reporting this to your local police for them to investigate (your local police will know if there have been other mail thefts in your area.
Thank you,
[Your Business Name]
I don’t include instructions, to open returns, claims, anything, in my messages. This is because the process can be different on pc vs mobile, different browsers, whenever Amazon tests a new page layout, whenever Amazon changes the steps for something without telling us…
I tell them to file a claim or open a return or whatever they need to do, and it’s up to them to figure out how. I find that the benefits of giving step by step instructions are outweighed by the downsides of the instructions being incomplete or incorrect based on something I can’t control or predict, or the buyer’s inability to follow directions.
These customers know the scam.
If they file too many A-Z complaints they lose the ability to file them. So they have to resort to trying to fool the seller into issuing a refund.
I wouldn’t even reply to the refund request. Let them return an empty envelope and file a safe-T-Claim with photos.
I’ve sent the A-Z instructions to them 3 times. They are not engaging through messaging except to mark their complaint unresolved.
I don’t want to spell this out because I’m suspicious they don’t want the incident researched, they just want a refund. Which is why I chose this wording that doesn’t state they will get a refund but doesn’t raise any obvious flags they might not.
I make my packaging so tough that I can be absolutely sure that any customer who claims to receive an empty package is lying.
It costs me a quarter or two per package, but in return I get the knowledge that honest customers receive an undamaged product, and dishonest ones are easily detected.