Had maybe 10 chargebacks over the years, we had to respond to the Amazon email asking for the exact info they already have… All were credited back to us.
This one $97, we respond in same fashion as usual. A month later we get this replay from Amazon
"As we informed in the previous email, we have provided to the customer’s card issuer all the required information about the order. This information includes:
– Proof of delivery
– Invoice
– Returns policy
However, after reviewing this information the card issuer has decided to re-dispute the charge. The card issuer does not allow Amazon to participate in the second time chargeback dispute, so as per payment protection policy you are responsible for all the service related chargebacks and we have debited your account for 97.32 USD.
The outcome of this matter is decided solely by the card issuer, and not Amazon.
To learn more about chargebacks, go to the “Chargebacks” help page: Amazon Sign-In"
Are we SOL on this? Another wonderful cost of doing business?
If you use buy shipping shouldn’t you be able to get Amazon to cover the cost somehow?
If you didn’t use buy shipping then you’re responsible for an INR chargeback. Proof of delivery isn’t always sufficient evidence that the customer actually received the item.
Yeah and since you used buy shipping you shouldn’t be liable for this.
Email jeff@
Yes Amazon lost the case, fine, but Amazon is responsible for unauthorized charges, not the seller. The seller has no control over what is and is not accepted charge/sale wise.
Not even relevant in this case. Amazon policy is they’re liable for fraud chargebacks end of story. I can’t find the policy but I know for a fact that the merchant’s not liable for a fraud claim under any circumstance.
So Amazon seems to preliminarily think that the problem was not with delivery, but with what was actually delivered. I don’t think that the seller has any standing in the dispute with the credit card company, but it may have been wise to provide proof of what was put in the box.
This reminds me of my former bank, who contacted me to tell me that I had been a victim of “identity theft”, and that I would need to “take action”.
I asked them what had been stolen, as nothing had been stolen from me.
They replied that someone had presented them with false information in making a purchase with a number that matched my bank-issued visa card number.
I asked them if they had made any attempt to contact me and verify that it was really me making the purchase, and they said “no”. I asked if the physical card had been presented and swiped/scanned, and they said no, it was an online purchase.
So, I said - "My identity has not been stolen, as I still have it. YOU were defrauded by someone, and your poor security allowed the transaction, so I am not involved at all. If someone robbed your bank, would you call all the depositors, and tell them that THEY had been robbed? I’ll be down tomorrow to close my accounts, and I’ll give you back your silly Visa card then!
What burns me is how is this even Amazon’s (much less yours) fault. I would argue that Amazon uses required security protocol established by the credit card company when submitting a charge. Beyond that, the credit card company has assumed the risk in an agreement between them and card holder. I understand an INR or defective product where the seller would be liable but “Unauthorized charge” especially on a card not present should totally be absorbed by the CC company.
I assume a credit card company refunds processing fees on a charge reversal? If not, I’m doubly mad.
You are debited the full amount returned to the customer.
Yes, last time I got a “pink envelope” Chargeback fee was $25, and I ended up winning it, but that $25 is gone the second the customer files the chargeback.
Yeah, the fee applies no matter what. Part of it is because they want to encourage merchants to avoid chargebacks (and a high chargeback rate usually does indicate a problem with how the merchant does business). The other part of it is credit card fees in general are basically a monopoly and if you have to accept their terms or you basically can’t do business.
There are actually more than one, beginning w/ the “S-3.3 A-to-z Guarantee, A-to-z Claims Process, and Chargebacks if the Elected Country is the United States.” clause of the ASBSA - but the ‘primary’ policy page on this is the SHC’s “Chargebacks” page @ https: //sellercentral.amazon.com/help/hub/reference/48781, quoted below (bolded & italicized emphasis mine; n.b. that the Amazon Pay Program-specific SHC page linked in the “Note” appears to have been deprecated):
Were I to face our friend @amzin’s unfortunate situation, that’s the peg upon which I’d hang my hat.
On a related note, I would say that there’s good information to be found on this subject from sources which our friend @papy linked in these two now-closed SAS threads from last fall, as well in other related SAS threads which are linked therein:
We cited this exact phrase in our new correspondence to them, fingers crossed. But as we all know just because it says it black and white, doesn’t mean they feel like honoring their own written policies.
Keep reopening the ticket and eventually (often takes 20-30 times) a Human who can understand English will respond, but make sure to pay attention to your case log page. Amazon treats “transferred” as “answered” so you need to be sure that you respond/reopen any “answered” or “transferred” tickets within the 5-day limit. If the case is “transferred” then respond by saying something/anything so it goes back to “Pending Amazon Action”…
and while it is still open and not closed as answered, transferred, whatever, you can “view” and “edit” to change the Short Description to make a note for you and Amazon to see, like I often notate by changing short description to “properly resolved” + issue, or adding something about amazon ignoring me, whatever. but you can only edit this while the case is still open, so do any edits before amazon 5 day runs out.
I think I have noticed that often now Amazon system keeps tickets alive by bot responding every other day saying they are still working on it. If a bot doesn’t do this, you need to say something to keep the ticket alive, but as long as a bot is keeping the ticket alive, just wait.
You want “Pending Amazon Action” showing for anything that is not satisfactorily resolved.
