Recently I was recruited by a Walmart rep to sell my product, "[The Moon Ring] on Walmart.com. I was happy to sign-on as I’ve grown pretty tired of Amazon’s BS.
I’ve been selling Amazon since 2015 quite successfully. I was just crossing the threshold of “quit-your-dayjob” money, when “UL4200A” hit and I was taken down. A 4.6 rating with 951 reviews, all gone in a day. They left my ‘handmade’ listing up, but it only has 11 reviews and gets roughly 1/10th the traffic of my ‘general products’ listing, so when Walmart came calling I thought I should definitely give it a go.
Biggest mistake ever…
None of the listings below are mine. They’re all Chinese sellers who stole my images and purport to sell my hand-made, home-made, patented product. They’re lying, saying they have my product for sale when they couldn’t possibly. I ordered one to make sure they weren’t copying it. I received a non-functioning piece of trash.
The worst part is that I’m getting cancellations on other platforms (amazon, etsy, etc.) because the customer “found it cheaper somewhere else.” Little does that poor customer know, they’re being scammed. And Walmart doesn’t seem to care as I submit roughly 50 brand portal IP complaints a week. They do take the offending listings down, but it takes them a week or more to get to the complaints, and in that time more copies pop up. So much damage.
I know many of you have dealt with this on Amazon. I have as well, but it stopped about a year ago. I made a TON of Brand Registry IP complaints and it all stopped. But the problem on Walmart is 10 times worse. If it isn’t illegal, it shoudl be. Shouldn’t it be Walmart’s responsibility to NOT allow IP infringement on their site? Shouldn’t they be required to vet their sellers? Certainly if Target had knockoffs of my IP protected product on their shelves there would be legal consequences.
I spoke with an attorney who said it sounds worthy of a class-action. I have screenshots like the one attached, and cancellation emails from customers saying they “found it cheaper somewhere else.” How many of you have evidence and would like to be a part of this? If there are enough, I’ll pursue it. I mean, WE’LL pursue it. As we should.
I question the lawyer you spoke to. It would be very hard to have a class action group unless it would be for buyers. Honestly a good ip lawyer should be able to quickly fire off some c&d’s to Walmart and the Chinese sellers (once Walmart gives up their info to get out of the c&d)
I don’t make my own product but I have heard stories like this before and every time it makes me angry. Some people are so dishonest I can’t really wrap my head around it.
As far as a class action suit, I don’t know what the threshold is, but you need a lot of people to join your suit. How many handmade sellers are there on Walmart? Are there enough impacted by this for a class action suit?
Sure. I can send a C&D. I’ve sent many. Sometimes they work, often they don’t. I’m just so tired of it. And really, it needs to be addressed. How is it totally legal for a world-serving platform like Walmart to not vet its sellers and thusly harm so many small businesses? It only continues to be a problem because there hasn’t been any mass appeal made to get Walmart to stop it.
Agreed. There are tons of people suffering the same BS. They’re not all handmade, but they don’t have to be. As long as they own the IP, and have screenshots, emails, etc. of the knockoffs and proof of the damage to their sales/brand, etc., they deserve compensation. -They just need to be able to prove it’s a problem. And it goes beyond just cancellations. I have a 1-star video review on my Amazon product page from a “non-verified” purchase who bought a knockoff, then went on a crusade to damage MY business because he assumes the product he bought MUST have been my actual product. Amazon’s video team agreed it looked like a knockoff, but because (I S**T you not, this is what they said), “there is no cursing in the video so it doesn’t violate our guidelines and we cannot take it down.” It’s all just wrong.
I hear you, but it’s going to be very hard to prove all the harm to different sellers. Buyers would be easier to prove the harm to.
A c&d to Walmart if you haven’t yet may get their attention.
Are your designs tm’ed?
Your images should be copyrighted so you could do a takedown notice, but depending on how dimwitted Walmart is (like Amazon) that could blow back on you.
You stated that you made complaints on Amazon and it stopped, have you done the same on Walmart? If they’re ignoring your complaints then yes they can be held liable. If you haven’t filed complaints then it’s your responsibility since they can’t remove something that hasn’t been reported.
Yep. The Moon Ring is patented, copyrighted as a sculpture, and TM’d. But you know, China doesn’t care. And Walmart will eventually take down the listings I submit to them through the brand portal, but they need to put something in place (like Amazon) so that if this happens again, they can be held accountable. In the long run, I would think it’ll help their business since their quality will improve. I’ll never be able to gather enough buyers together for this. -They just don’t care. And again, this is a direct threat to small biz owners. Whatever new guidelines get put into place should be designed to protect us.
Hey, yep. As mentioned I’ve submitted MANY “brand portal” IP claims (see below) and Walmart DOES eventually take down the offenders. But it takes them weeks, and in that time a great deal of damage is done.
With recent judgements against sites like Amazon and others holding them responsible for 3rd party sellers you may see Walmart react.
What i have heard about Walmart (i have no direct experience) is that selling on Walmart is sloppy, buggy, and in general Walmart is winging it and is years behind Amazon (even as bad as Amazon is!)
If they’re removing the listings then they’re more or less fulfilling their legal obligation. If you’re unhappy about the amount of time it takes them to remove the listings you can certainly file a lawsuit against walmart for it. This is not a class action type thing though, since each claimant would have vastly different claims.
Hi and welcome to SellersAskSellers @TheMoonRing! Your concerns are beyond justified. Yes, it is up to designer and rights holders to protect their intellectual property, but at some point platforms do need to be responsible for putting rights holders into that position by not properly vetting listings.
Even just the simple question prior to letting a listing go live “do you hold any USPTO-registered patent, trademark, and/or copyright to this product, and if yes please submit documentation” could go a long way towards a good faith effort to keep marketplaces simultaneously safer for shoppers and safer for Sellers, if a listing without such documentation is challenged by a listing with it. And wouldn’t violate their “we don’t mediate IP disputes” stance.
The issue for platforms/channels is really what real damages they allow to be done to a Seller/product due to not properly vetting listings in the first place and while “investigating” in the second place–but then also having to mitigate abuse of the system as a black hat tactic.
Honestly, in your case and the many others like it, where you have demonstrated both IP ownership and active IP protection, there needs to be a privileged status that expedites complaints but that also is dependent on demonstrating that you don’t use your privilege capriciously.
It’s a problem bigger than one Seller, or one platform (or one country), and I’m sorry that you are caught up in it, @TheMoonRing. I’m wondering if in the short term you could use your not-main images to educate shoppers on what authentic items should look like and how to spot knock offs or counterfeits?
I share @Pepper_Thine_Angus skepticism about the legal basis for a class action suit, and the competence of the lawyer in IP law.
When you offer your own creations and designs on the Internet, you need to factor in the costs of the legal game of whack a mole and its affect on your time and your mind.
I know many highly creative and productive crafts people who never offer their current creations on any website, even their own. They sell through galleries and shows primarily, and any web presence is with designs they are not relying on for revenue at this time.
Lots of variation in how they reach their existing customers.
If your designs can be knocked off from photos on the net, they will be knocked off, assuming anyone decides they want to buy them.
Listing on a website which promotes itself to buyers seeking a low price, is an invitation to knock offs.
Yeah, well that ain’t right. and it’s only been tolerated for as long as it has because no group has risen up and publically pointed at the problem. If knockoffs of my product were on the shelf at Walmart, you can bet there’d be an issue, so why should Walmart be able to say, “oh, but it’s our online store, so it’s ok…”
they can’t as I referenced above (re recent court cases), doesn’t mean they have to make it easy for you though. They are only going to do the minimum the law (or your lawyer) requires unfourtnately.
That’s exactly right. So the law needs to either implemented or amended to address such crimes. And until a buncha people make a stink about it, nothing will be done.
but unfortunately that still isn’t a class action.
I think the enticing thing to you is that class actions generally do not cost anything (lawyers take the fees out of the judgement/settlement). It’s going to be very hard for you to find enough others that have been harmed in the exact same way as you have been to constitute a “class”
The issue is these marketplaces provide a venue for these foreigners who are more or less untouchable by a US court to do business on. There needs to be someone held responsible when someone’s doing business in the US.
