FTC alleges Amazon enrolled people in Prime without consent and thwarted members’ attempts to cancel.
The FTC charges that Amazon put in place a cancellation process designed to deter consumers from successfully unsubscribing from Prime. Previous reporting about the process in the media has noted that Amazon used the term “Iliad” to describe the process, which the reporting cites as an allusion to Homer’s epic poem
The complaint notes that Amazon was aware of consumers being nonconsensually enrolled and the complex and confusing process to cancel Prime that the company’s executives failed to take any meaningful steps to address the issues until they were aware of the FTC investigation. In the complaint, the FTC also alleges that Amazon attempted to delay and hinder the Commission’s investigation in multiple instances.
Yeah, subscriptions have gotten out of control. My wife did an Apple store plant watering app trial that auto renewed for $8 per week without her realizing. Pfft! My out of nest daughter is on the same account so I have to monitor her unaware auto subscriptions as well but all in all I am happy with my Amazon Prime subscription as I use included music, books, video and shipping. I was trying Walmart for a while for slightly better prices but they mostly use Fed-Ex which is notoriously bad for my location. Amazon has almost exclusively switched to USPS for my location which actually outperforms Fed-Ex.
But yeah, they are all getting tricky with subscriptions and terms.
Mr Rossmann is certainly entitled to be frustrated that this is what the FTC is pursuing against Amazon, but I have some notes:
Just because he thinks it’s easy for him to cancel Prime does not mean that it is universally and objectively easy to cancel Prime for everyone. He is clearly more tech savvy than the average bear and likely more tuned in to the likelihood that Amazon could be untrustworthy.
Many consumers won’t even realize that their Prime has been auto renewed without their consent. Yes, they should be checking and verifying, but that doesn’t make it ok for Amazon to exploit them if they don’t. Just because you forget to lock your car doesn’t make it ok for someone to steal it.
Amazon’s cancellation process was intentionally obtuse. It was difficult on purpose, employing dark patterns to dupe customers.
Sometimes, you bring the cases you can actually prosecute and that will have the most meaningful outcomes if won. IOW, you choose your battles.
I actually crafted a reply pointing out the confusion between Mr. Rossmann & Mr. Rosenberg, immediately after @packetfire first posted it - after undertaking the same exercise as you to confirm that there seems to exist no obvious linkage `twixt these two consultants - but for reasons delineated in my initial post over in the “Welcome” thread, I decided to bide my time & see if the seasoned hands wouldn’t correct the discrepancy.
I was not disabused of the notion that such would come to pass - because the SAS/SellersAskSellers forum really IS the BSFE.
I ignored the Rossman video until there was further posting activity.
I know that defending Amazon causes uneasiness in me and in others.
It is akin to voting in presidential elections, in its dis-ease.
This suit is a bunch of crap. No one should be forced to dumb down their operations to deal with the deliberately ignorant segment of the population ordered by the government which contributes to their ignorance.
I would be willing to see Amazon and any other website being required to state this site requires a reading level of 5th grade in order to navigate. If you are dumber than dirt, try some other way of buying.
With as many flaws as Amazon has, they do not reach the levels of a major brewer whose best selling product was something no one in their management would consider drinking, and their customers were deemed worthy of no respect. I would not drink that swill either, but I would defend the rights of their customers to buy or not buy and drink it without being disrespected.
Amazon may not think much of their 3P sellers, but they value their customers.
Thanks @papy , I saw the post and was going to respond saying Mr. Rossmann has nothing to do with Ed Rosenberg, but you beat me to it. Have been watching Louis’ videos for years now and I can say in almost every case he is credible. He actually was a seller on Amazon and got out when it started to get crappy several years ago. He has several videos critical of Amazon’s shady practices and most of them are spot on. I don’t think his point here was so much how it’s easy to cancel Prime, but more calling out the FTC for basically showboating here as if they are going to do something that would actually penalize Amazon (they’re most likely not).
One point he brought out is that Amazon changed their cancellation methods ONLY after the FTC started to investigate them which of course speaks for itself.
It is not political. [mod edit: political commentary removed] And this action was personally driven by her. There is plenty of evidence that she has been an Amazon hater for a long time.
Amazon is a great marketing company and cares about controlling its image.
It has three skills - marketing, reading its operating results and managing Wall Street.
We are taking zero tolerance for all attempts at political commentary, political dog whistles, skirting the “no politics” prohibition, etc at this time.
Some SAS members have behaved unprofessionally when held accountable, and it has resulted in harassment and complaints.
All SAS members are capable of finding professional and permitted ways to express opinions relevant to selling on Amazon that adhere to the Community Expectations.
I wonder if Audible will be brought up in this. Not only do they make it extremely complicated to even know you have an active membership, but they also revoke credits you previously paid for when canceling.
Check the screenshot of p71. ALL of Amazon’s subscription service cancellations were under review by the internal Shopping Design department’s “Clarity Working Group” at the same time as Amazon’s senior execs were actively working to suppress/ignore the findings of the same group.
Right hand knew what left hand was doing, so chopped it off so the FTC couldn’t discover it (see p84 screenshot).
This is more than just silo management being ineffective. This is silo management actively sabotaging itself.
Hopefully that will translate to ‘created liability’ for Amazon in Court.
There are lines that should not be crossed in writing. There is less of a chance of execs recording other execs during a conversation but it has happened.
Let the fun and games begin as former execs start turning over their evidence to save their own butts…
(see p84 screenshot).
