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And yet still when push comes to shove and your kid is dying of cancer you will rely on experts to save your child. Yes yes.

But the narrative you’re suggesting as the definition for anti-expert/anti-institution does not cover the spectrum of folk that are anti-expert/anti-institution.

This is exactly Eric Weinstein’s critique of Harvard - we need experts and we need institutions - to be objective in their assessment and study of any art/field of study (including science) - and yet still, his allergic reaction to people who question his Geometric Unity and his assertion that he’s part of an Intellectual Dark Web (IDW) - a clear conundrum - the idea is we should be open to ideas outside of institutions that are highly biased by various interests:

So Health Sciences - Pharmaceutical companies
Humanities and Social Studies - Politics
Engineering and Tech - Silicon Valley

Varying in degree and reach.

These things will never be resolved and reconciled and there will always be a push from the fringes or even from without - considering none of these things occurs in a vacuum.

The underdog always becomes the overdog - Google was nothing in the face of legacy media before it became media, Same with social networks, until they became the technological and cultural hegemon. Same with AI, probably.

Just some thoughts.

Well that also ignores the entire groundswell in anti-institutionalism from all spectrums, toward all institutions both private and public. And by institutions I mean everything from public banks and corporations to universities, to governments and even religious institutions.
I digress Amazon is still a sociopathic greed machine determined to milk every penny from us.
I highly recommend learning to cook if someone wants a great skill that wows at parties. You won’t have to trade your only car to cover the doordash charges for the Chipolte where extra guac was $9 for your $30 burrito.

Of course we do not need fools who think they know more than their doctors, but we need to understand the limits to what doctors know and what the current state of medicine is.

It has been commonplace for many years to seek a second opinion when one feels uncomfortable with what one’s doctor tell us. Many lives have been saved because the patient or their caregiver sought a second opinion.

The first opinion might not have been based on any science, but based on the common interpretation of science, or common practice among physicians in that region of the country,.

Medicine is practiced differently in different parts of the US. Some areas may use treatments which do more harm than alternatives.

Educated to be a researcher in biomedical science, I know more than most doctors as to what the science is behind much of what they do.

One of my business failures, because I did not do due diligence, was as a distributor of the American Medical Association’s online network, MiNet.

The benefits of the service were unappreciated by most doctors. It had extensive drug databases. As one doctor who was a friend told me, most doctors use half a dozen drugs to treat all of their patients. If they are treating a condition they do not have a drug in their personal arsenal to treat, they ask a specialist what to prescribe.

Many of us have changed doctors, and the doctors changed our medications for the same conditions, to a set of drugs which were in their arsenal.

As part of our marketing efforts for MiNet we became involved with the Boston Computer Society’s medical group. These doctors where fascinated with the PC and were would be scientific researchers.

I listed to dozens of “papers” based on their “research”. None of them was accepted for publication because none of them was science. None met the requirements for a scientific study.

This is not to say that they did not provide anecdotal evidence which might point a researcher to design a study but none reached a conclusion which had any science to support it.

These Doctors did not know what science was. These doctors were experienced clinicians, with degrees from prestigious schools but still failed to know what one had to do to provide “scientific truth”.

Experts are asked for their opinions. Opinion is not science. The hypocracy of Dr. Fauci’s post-pandemic statements was based on the fact he admited to having provided his opinion. But his statements when he had offered his opinion implied he was stating the science.

We pay doctors to provide the best care that the available science offers, but many doctors do not know the alternatives to what they do. And this does not mean that any treatment other than what they normally choose is shamanism.

In NYC a patient is more likely when visiting a doctor for a sore throat to leave the office with a prescription for an antibiotic. In Boston, the patient will have a throat culture taken, and when the results are in be given a prescription for an antibiotic for the specific bacterium which caused the infection or no prescription.

Both are commonly accepted practices, but the regional practitioners will each defend their mode of operation.

Antibiotic resistance among bacteria is more likely in NYC where antibiotic use is higher, based on scientific studies. But patient pressure to have an antibiotic prescribed is higher in NYC and many doctors act to please their patients.

The government decided to protect the public from unsafe drugs in around 1906 when the Pure Food and Drug Act was passed.

It created the FDA, and was a result of a tragic series of deaths of children caused by an oral sulfonamide elixir. It used a solvent which was a component of antifreeze and highly toxic.

In 1968, the FDA’s mandate was expanded to include drug effectiveness. A result of pressure to do something after the thalidamide tragedy, it had nothing to do with the thalidamide tragedy. It did not help to avoid future tragedies because no drug is tested on pregnant patients. Just about every drug approved post-1968 has a warning against giving it to pregnant women. A warning which is sometimes ignored.

And those regulations permit physicians to make off label uses of drugs, I am currently taking two drugs for off label conditions. They are prescribed by my doctors because they work. The dosages and side effects are identical to when they are used for FDA approved purposes.

The Covid debate about the use of Cloroquinine for covid was not about good and professional medical practice. It was about control.

There is no argument that it was other than another off label treatment for a disease.

There are many conditions which do not lend themselves to controlled scientific studies. Physician discretion as to whether to use approved drugs for other purposes is legal. The use of other substances may not be. But there is no justification for using substances which can be tested which are not tested because the proponents are ignorant.

The FDA has made it so expensive to get a drug tested and approved that only Big Pharma can afford it.

Vivek made a lot of money buying the rights to drugs which Big Pharma decided were not worth the investment. He invested a little more and when he got some encouraging data, he sold them to a buyer with more money to invest.

Like so many things, the results are dependent on how much money you are willing to risk.

As for the doctor with the hip replacement, it is not a requirement that he know what metal they are, but it would help if he knew what was done to make sure it was safe. And he definitely should know what the signs are if it was unsafe for some patient.. Unfortunately, they are installed by surgeons, who would like to think their involvement begins and ends in the OR.

While I agree with the majority of your post, the core issue is that the opinions of untrained people vastly outside of their lane, are given exceptional weight in society due to social media. If Joe Rogan, an very intelligent and gifted orator/communicator/presenter, goes out of his lane, the results are literally deadly. These “actors” do not bring legitimately gathered counter research, but instead sow derision for the sole purposes of clicks, votes, personal opinion etc.
Time and time again we read about such things from Hydroxychloroquine abuse to tide pods, and on and on and on because people in the media and social media sphere step out of their lane. It is pervasive, as I can tell when a reporter has never served in the military, when they call an AR style rifle an AK47, or when a F-18 is pictured on a story about the Air Force.

Its like a merry-go-round of Terrance Howard math class related media all over the place.
My point was to say not everyone is a polymath, so we need specializations in society and there has to be an implied reliability of those professions, that is not so easily thrown into question when the surgeon cannot answer precisely about the metallic makeup of a hip replacement.

This is where my mom and people like her go “Look, he is a fraud!”, because he didn’t memorize the serial number before their conversation. It is perverted and pervasive in society IMO. Ill stop editing now LOL

Social media was the biggest destructive influence of the Internet,

I believe Zuckerberg should be found guilty of a capital crime.

But the graduates of journalism schools are no more qualified to be read than any other ignoramus.

The Internet is based on a believe that no qualifications are required for any purpose. It is a stronger and more popular belief than anything in the Bill of Rights.

I know no solutions which would counter that belief and maintain the Bill of Rights.

But those institutors are held financially and in many cases socially responsible for the products they put out, or at least they used to. Remember when editors got fired for letting junk onto the front page? Remember what a retraction is? I do. Voting machine legal cases show they do pay a price for what they write.
The Terrance Howard thing is a perfect example. Notice no major institution published anything about Howards mystical realm of physics? That is because those institutions, however slight, have some guardrails in place and responsibility for what they publish.

Now the inmates run the asylum. Bezos has been unable to focus his Washington Post employees on profit and survival.

This is a very tough egg to crack.

On the one hand Institutions have safeguards and a semblance of liability - but vested interests heavily play in these ponds

On the other hand, you have people from without like Joe - who clearly point out, rightly that these institutions are not pristine, but carry their own baggage of bias and can easily shun liability by an entertainment disclaimer.

Very hard to game theory this out. The premise of course is that we need a savior/hero to look up to - and my feeling is, that most people do, have and always will.

But the real solution is that, ultimately, the individual bears the utmost responsibility - but this also, carries its own set of problems.

And it will always be a tug of war between all three.

Is there really any adequate substitute for personal responsibility?

Methinks not, but over the last seven decades (inclusive of the present one), I’ve found myself increasingly dismayed to find, year after year, that I’m not only in the minority who pay more than lip-service to that MOST-fundamental life concept, but also that our numbers decrease in leaps and bounds.

As a follow up to my post quoted below, please also do not include names of politicians, celebrities who speak on political issues, dog whistles, “veiled references,” and similar in your posts.

I really don’t know how else to say it: NO POLITICS.

If you can not respond without mentioning politics directly, indirectly, roundabout, tangentially, etc: DO NOT REPLY.

DO NOT REPLY THAT “EVERYTHING IS POLITICS”.

If your self-control is not up to the task of maintaining no politics, then please scroll to the bottom of this thread, select the dropdown menu, and click MUTED.

FINAL WARNING before posts are simply deleted in whole without warning and users receive a reduction in posting privileges without appeal.

https://test.sellersasksellers.com/t/yay-or-nay-on-evs/4214/99?u=papy

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I used Eric’s and Joe Rogan’s name above; does that count? They are celebrities that do speak on politics but the context was institutionalism vs non-institutionalism.

Our ask is to avoid names moving forward, please. Not everyone can handle it professionally.

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A common villain works well too. Newspapers (ask your grandma/grandpa to explain what they are if you don’t know) on 9/12/2001, 1/29/1986 and 12/8/1941 for example, had different headlines than the days prior. We had challenges to focus on, grieving to overcome, and some butt whipping to do, instead of pathetic squabbling about what state has cheaper gas, or fewer trailer parks, and punching down on fellow Americans.

For clarity…
What does this mean that not everyone can handle it professionally?

I have an autistic child, in the younger years we had to endure every single spoken word, conversation, topic and food had to be related to steam locomotives. Going up the stairs was a conversation about how the Big Boy would go up grades. Eating cereal was a description about shoveling coal till oil was used. Going to school was inquires about if we could go as fast as a locomotive. Every damn thing was about steam trains.

My point to all that is, if you are an author on the SAS, don’t be autistic about your politics, and try and weave it into every topic, thread, post, conversation and don’t make politic-adjacent posts, threads, replies, etc. because many people reading that stuff are tired of it, as it is already everywhere else.

We simply don’t have the time to run a business of our own, and try and keep the members with political tourettes under control. We waste enough time simply keeping out the spammers outside the gates.

We have had problems in the past with users running away with off-topic and SAS-prohibited content, thus the need for this post: https://test.sellersasksellers.com/t/friendly-reminder-politics-bigotry-sas/1519?u=papy.

SellersAskSellers is intentionally a politics-free zone. So many of our community are comfortable here exactly because we are zero tolerance. Many users rarely use other forms of social media due to the proliferation of politics, politicizing, political-adjacent, etc rhetoric and content.

As business professionals, we should either be able to have professional, respectful, insult-free discussion around issues without engaging in politicization, or have the self-awareness to avoid that which is too tempting.


ETA: Excellent analogy @VTR

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https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-earnings-dow-sp500-nasdaq-live-08-01-2024

I really caution anyone from reading too much into daily fluctuations of the stock market–or the headlines. The stock market is an indicator of economic shifts but is not the economy itself, and it is quite susceptible to whims and misdirection…and again, the headlines, hoo boy.

For example, this was yesterday’s headline: Stock market news today: Stocks soar, Nvidia surges 12%, as Fed, Powell pave way for September rate cut. :woman_shrugging:

Monitor it, look for patterns, know when to be alert–but be cautious and triangulate your information sources.